How Duncan Kreeger built TAB from the ground up

Opening & Introduction
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I remember in my first jobs, I don't know why I did this, but I would go and find out who the
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MD was or the CEO, and I'd knock on the door and introduce myself. I think when I look around my
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office, and what I'm expecting is for people to make themselves seen and heard.
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Hi, Duncan. Hi. Hi. Thanks for being here. My pleasure. Yeah. I'd like to ask you some questions about
How Duncan Got Started in Property and Finance
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your past. What led you to found TAB? It's a long story of how I got to TAB.
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I spent some time, I guess the first qualification I ever got in my life was to become
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a mortgage broker. And so I became qualified to give mortgage advice when mortgages became
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regulated. And I think the answer to your question is real estate. I've always been
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interested in property. So over sort of all the business ideas I've had and things I've looked at,
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one thing I always come back to is property and real estate. It fascinates me. Um, I like the fact
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that it's been here for many years before I arrived, and all being well will still be here for
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many years after I'm gone. So as kind of custodian of property, if you like. Okay. So that's
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something that really interests me. And then I guess at an early age, I started to think, well, it
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makes sense that you could buy this for X, spend Y, and it would be worth something in the future. It's
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tangible. Tangible. Yeah. And logical. Yeah. So okay, that makes sense.
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How would you go about it. What would you do as a mixture of debt and equity. And you know, there's
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kind of a number of different ways to pull these things off. So I think all of the businesses that
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I'm invested in and most of the things that I do on a day to day basis are around property. And
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after a couple of decades in the property world. I've sort of made loads of friends. And,
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having sold my previous business, I definitely took a step back and thought, what do I want to do
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with my life? And it took me a while to kind of figure out that actually, I really enjoy what I
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did before. I'm really good at it. My network is around real estate and
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specifically finance, property, finance, mortgages, bridging finance, that sort of thing. So I said
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I wasn't going to do it again. And now here I am eight years into TAB, very much enjoying it. I
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think it was a huge opportunity. Things evolved so quickly, and it's just important to keep your eyes
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open, eyes and ears open. Totally get that, property is one of my passions. My father was a builder who
From Passion to Profession
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built 42 houses. Okay, wow. The tangible thing I really recognised because you, you know, you can go
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down a road in Brentwood and he's built a couple of houses there, and it's a real legacy, isn't it?
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So yeah, totally understand that. So, Duncan. Leadership. Yes. What kind of leader are you?
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I like to lead by example. So actually I'm the first person in every day. But I also like to be
Leadership: Leading by Example
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the first person to leave every day. So I've got four children, as we've discussed off camera.
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And I like to spend sort of 1 to 1 time with my kids as well as I'm taking four out in one go is a
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handful, to say the least. So, yeah, I mean, that's how I've set my life up I'm up super
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early every day. I like to lead by example. I have done every single job in the business, obviously,
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because when I started again from scratch, there was just one of me or two of us. And so there's
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nothing I wouldn't do myself, happy to have any conversation. I think another thing I would say is
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that I feel strongly the buck stops with me. So I definitely am not a finger pointer. There's
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no blame game. I like to take all the responsibility because ultimately it is my
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responsibility. If somebody does something stupid, then that's my fault. Be a reason. Yeah. If lack
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of training or lack of understanding or giving the wrong person the wrong thing to do. And I
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certainly haven't cracked it, I can promise you that, I'm learning every day, as we were talking
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about before and try to strike a balance of being firm but fair.
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So, you know, what we do is complex and big numbers and a lot's
Authenticity and Growth as a Leader
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riding on it, so we have to be sharp and focussed. So just try to, I think, be myself, really
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important. I'm the same person in the office as I am at home. And has that leadership way of
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working always been like that or is it, I mean obviously you've learnt on the job, but are there
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other parts of that that have evolved over time? I think a lot has evolved, but I'm, I've definitely
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kind of gained more confidence to be more and more authentic. So I'm not one to kind
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of read a book and learn something new about what I should be doing in the future. I'm definitely
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still sort of learning on the job. And do you read books? I listened to a lot of books. I'm in the car
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a lot. So I listen to stuff and I think I've less so got kind of 1 or 2 role models and what I
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like is to absorb as much as I can and hope that there's kind of little bits I can take along
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this kind of path to improve along the journey. And what would you say your staff think of you?
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I think that, I think they probably. Good and bad. Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting interview
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question, isn't it? What would your friend say about you? What would your colleagues say about
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you? I think maybe fair and ambitious,
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so I'm not sure. Actually, it's not a question I've thought about much recently. Does it bother you
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what they would say? No, it doesn't. It doesn't bother me. I mean, in the best possible way
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I don't really care what anybody else thinks. I'm very, very content. I'm not, I certainly
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don't think I've cracked it. And everybody. I like to be a leader, so I would like to think my staff
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would want to follow me. And have you had some that have followed you in different roles,
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in different companies? Yes, I have actually, in fact, our business now, I've got kind of 4 or
Surround Yourself with Good People
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5 key people from my previous firm. But I've also faced some things through the last few years,
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that I haven't had before in my career. Like turnover of staff, senior management team. It's not
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easy. I think people, people think I'm good at this part of the job and therefore I'm going to go and
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start on my own. And there's a million things going on when you're running a company, hiring,
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firing, office, rental, furniture and I mean, you know, finance, legal, regulation,
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a lot of things that are, I would say, distractions from the core product. And strategy, and
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strategy, yeah. I think I learned very, very, very early on. Somebody said to me, and I didn't
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understand it at the time. Um, I went to to see somebody. Um, my Uncle Martin, actually.
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And he said to me, surround yourself with good people. And I was like, okay, yeah, but, you know, can
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you give me any sort of tips? And he said, surround yourself with good people. Wise words. Yeah. And,
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it's true, you know, because you need people to come on the journey with you. You can't do it all on
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your own. I don't want to do it all on my own. I want to to take people on the journey with me.
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Yeah. No 100% agree on that. So what do you think are the most important qualities to be a
Listening Over Speaking
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successful CEO? I think just being aware, of
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what's going on. So I think it's super important to listen. Um, you know, again, two ears
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one mouth. And I think when you're when you're the CEO and I've seen it before, I think people tend
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to want to be the loudest voice in the room. I think it's a really difficult quality, but a
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really important one to shut up and listen. You can't learn anything from speaking. You just do it
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yourself. How do you deal with stress if things don't go to plan? How do you deal with that stress?
Turning Stress into Strength
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Are you a sportsperson? I don't really get stressed, to be honest. That's really good. I like, I think, I've talked
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about this before, but I think, if you say the word anxiety to people, it's it sounds like a big
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negative. Big fat negative. It's like, oh, anxiety. To me I've always seen anxiety as a positive.
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So if you get butterflies in your stomach before you go on stage, that's a good thing. It's
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important, because it's important to you and you want to do well. And I think there's a kind of
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this mood, in our gen, my generation is kind of to avoid anxiety and to treat yourself
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for it and to take yourself away from it. And I think that, I think the skill is to embrace it and
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to understand why do you feel that way and how can I use this to my advantage? So I think
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stress is a good thing. It means something's important that you care and that you want to
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succeed. So I thrive on it. So let's move on to technology and innovation. So
Technology, Data & AI at TAB
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Tab uses AI. TAB does use AI. So when I started TAB, one of the first employees I
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hired was in technology. I think for whatever reason, and it genuinely baffles me, Financial
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services lags behind on technology, you would think, with, it's just such a good use case
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for technology and automation and now AI, you would think that big banks, big
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tech and big financial services would, would go hand in hand with each other. The reality is, I
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think there's, excuse me, lots of legacy businesses where things have worked and banking systems are
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genuinely archaic and they've been levelled up with, I mean, you, I'm sure, know this better than I
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do. And I think there is an unbelievably good opportunity to embrace
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technology. Use it to your advantage. I mean, the big win for us is, I think as a business, it's
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access to real time information. So people talk about data, data, data. For us as a business, for
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me as a leader, and having done this with and without tech, I think you can convince yourself
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that you know what's going on in your business. You tend to see 1 or 2 things and you think
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that's a pattern. And what I've learned is the data doesn't lie. The numbers don't lie. So take
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that. So for us, it's about collecting data and trying to understand it. So we use Power BI. And
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I'm looking at a number of data points in a kind of easy to digest, real time
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way, where in the past I would have had to wait for my board meeting to know what my loan book
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was at the end of last month. And that was fine. That was normal at the time, but now I've been, I
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was on a plane yesterday. I was on the Wi-Fi. I was looking at the stats. I'm up to date with the
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business. I don't need to phone anybody and check in. I don't hear 1 or 2 opinions and think I
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know what's going on. I can take a broad view of the business and try to help. Try to make the
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right decisions quickly. Yeah. For sure. Excellent. So how has your definition of success evolved? I
Redefining Success
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mean, obviously you've bought, sold, bought and sold. Yeah. And maybe at the beginning, you know, you
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had different motivations, motivations than you do now. But what does success look like for you now?
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I mean, I've got an unbelievably high bar for where I think I can go. I think it's, it's really,
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really interesting. I'm one of these people that's happy to set the bar ridiculously high and
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be happy if I only get halfway there. And I think people are. Their tendency is not to set the bar
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too high because you don't want to fail and you don't want to miss out. On the
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other hand I feel extremely successful. I get to spend loads of time with my kids. I was in Dubai
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working, just yesterday and the day before, and it doesn't feel like work to me. So to me, that's
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success. Have a happy and healthy family. I've, you know, genuinely everything that I
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ever sort of dreamed of. So being aware of that, I think is super important. And I think there's a
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fine line between ambition and greed. And for me, I feel content. But I also
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am, almost dissatisfied with how far we've got. But in a good way, because I feel the
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opportunity is vast. And, I mean, I'm in this to win, not to, sort of be
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okay. Yeah. I mean, if you ask me, you're far too young to retire, But would you ever contemplate it? I
On Retirement and Finding Purpose
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contemplated it. Yeah, I definitely, definitely contemplated it. When I sold my first business, I
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felt like I'd won the lottery a little bit. Yeah. You know, money showed up in my bank account. And,
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you know, when you're younger or probably even now, lots of people in the pub will say, well, what
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would you do if you won the lottery? And I think what I thought I would do is different to what I
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decided to do. I mean, I sold my business. I, I rented a service, I left on Friday and rented a
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serviced office on Monday. And I had a small desk in a serviced office, and, I go on holiday.
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I never, never turn my phone off in my life, and I could if I wanted to. I didn't need
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to be in Dubai up at 8:00 in the morning presenting. I could hand it over to my team, but I
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genuinely enjoy it. I don't think. I don't imagine I will retire as in
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not have any work to do, but I would like to make my work more meaningful and more interesting. And
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I think if I woke up one day and thought, I really don't like this anymore, I'm not happy. I
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promise you, I would do something different. So future state. Yes. You know, if you were a
Advice for the Next Generation
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slightly younger person coming into the workforce today. Yeah. What would you advise them to look at,
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be like? Yeah. I think there's been a lot of chatter about the kind of
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millennials and whatever the, comes after that. It's kind of, I'm in my 40s, but for kind of me
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and older generation say, oh they don't know what it's like and they don't know. And what I think
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what I've learned is that that's a bit of nonsense. And there are young people who have
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drive and desire. I think it's very, very difficult. What I've learned, it's very difficult to teach
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people. Yeah. So you can't just take two people and mould them into what you want. You'll soon
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find out if somebody really wants it. Um, so you've got a guy who works for me. He's very
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young. He's there every day. He's the first person there every day. He's up early. He's figuring it
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out. I think it's about, less about what you say and more about what you do. So just try to
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encourage people to be the best version of themselves. And also to we talked about this
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before, but take yourself out of your comfort zone. Yeah. You know, barge your way into a
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conversation. I remember in my first jobs. I don't know why I did this, but I would go and find
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out who the MD was or the CEO, and I'd knock on the door and introduce myself. And, I think when
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I look around my office and what I'm expecting is for people to make themselves seen and heard, and
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what I would encourage people to do is say, can I sit in that meeting? And it wouldn't, and they
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don't, you know, so it would be like, yeah, come in, bring your notepad, take notes, ask questions, no
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questions a silly question. You can't be expected to be young and have it all figured out, so I'd
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encourage people to get on with it. I think the other thing is no question is a silly question.
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Absolutely. And I face it now, I've been doing the same thing for pretty much 20 years. I still find
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things every day that I haven't seen before, and I think it's a skill to say. Good question. I don't
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know the answer. Let me go away and find out. And I think people have a tendency to make stuff
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up and sort of blag their way through it and hope that they don't get found out. And I'd say
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there's nothing wrong with saying, I don't know. Absolutely. So the last question here, who's
Who Inspires Duncan Kreeger
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inspiring you right now? Could be a person could be a podcaster. I think my kids actually. Yeah. Yeah, I
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think seeing them figuring out the world and seeing their sort of innocent questions,
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they are inspiring me more than, yeah, I think there are, I think I have a lot of respect for
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people who are at the very top of their game. I know how difficult it is to be consistent myself.
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Yeah. So it takes effort? Yeah, it takes effort. Consistency is a skill that I think a lot of
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people lack. It's very easy to get motivated for a couple of days or weeks or months, but to be
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consistent for a number of years is extremely difficult. So seeing, like, Rory Mcllroy
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win the, finally to win at Augusta and to have the kind of full set over
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trying for 20 years, you have to take your hat off. And you know others who are at the
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top of their game and have stayed there for a long period of time. I definitely aspire to, to
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be that consistent. But as I said earlier, it's kind of just taking bits from everywhere and
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trying to use them to my advantage. All right. Well, thank you so much. My pleasure. For sitting here and talking to me.
Closing Thoughts & Reflections
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Yeah it was, really enjoyed it. Really really enjoyed it. Thanks very much for having me.
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Brilliant conversation. Thank you.
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It was wonderful speaking to Duncan, and I really enjoyed hearing the qualities that he thought were
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needed to be in a successful CEO. Definitely lead by example was something he did, being very
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fair to his team, partners and everyone involved in the business and the importance of listening.
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So you have two ears and one mouth for a reason. I very much agreed with Duncan's advice for young
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people early in their career. Make yourself known within the company. So no question is a silly
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question. Introduce yourself to the CEO. They don't bite. Introduce yourself to other people. And
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just embed yourself in the company. Ask to join meetings. They may not be your team, but you'll
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learn something at every single meeting you go to.

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